Prioritizing people, well-being and resilience in journalism with API’s Samantha Ragland (LNM Episode 51)

Dec 12, 2024

LNM 51 - Samantha Ragland

Samantha Ragland, vice president of journalism programs at the American Press Institute, shares practical strategies for fostering mental health and well-being in newsrooms. She highlights how prioritizing people can lead to exceptional journalism and stronger newsroom culture.

Ragland explores the balance between leadership and care, offering insights on building psychological safety, managing workloads, and fostering resilience. She also emphasizes the importance of addressing unique challenges faced by journalists of color and women, providing actionable steps for newsroom leaders to support diverse teams effectively.

From rethinking urgency to embracing creativity in leadership, Ragland illustrates how newsrooms of all sizes can thrive by building connections and redefining success. Her compelling stories and candid reflections make this a must-listen for anyone invested in the future of local journalism.

Episode chapters:
(00:03:51) – Sustainability from both the people and the business perspective
(00:08:26) – Start by prioritizing the people in your organization
(00:17:31) – Moving from hero to host to get things off your plate
(00:23:36) – Delegating, stopping tasks, and managing workload
(00:28:51) – Developing early career journalists
(00:36:07) – Re-examine story requirements, enlist technology and partners and stop multitasking
(00:43:23) – Manage the sense of urgency in the newsroom, take a break and set boundaries
(00:51:36) – Manage your story and sentiment mix
(00:59:18) – Authentic leadership and managing journalists of color
(01:24:09) – Rapid-fire questions
(01:31:05) – Media and local recommendations

Listen to the episode here:

Links:

 

Bio:

Samantha RaglandAn award-winning journalist, Sam Ragland is a dynamic educator and strategist serving as Vice President of Journalism Programs at the American Press Institute. A proud Southerner, Sam’s work empowers local news organizations to connect with diverse communities through cultural transformation, community engagement and sustainable practices for both the journalists and the business of journalism. A former Poynter faculty member and director of the flagship Leadership Academy for Women, she has trained journalists globally on resilience, creativity, and innovation. She is most called upon to facilitate cross-generational conversations on workplace well-being, inclusion and leadership. 

 

Full transcript:

(recorded via Riverside.fm; transcript automated via Castmagic.io, mostly unedited)

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:00:00]:As a people leader, your primary responsibility is to the people. And in our case, in journalism, in local news, and daily news coverage especially, it is hard to prioritize people over product, but you can. And when you do, you will get exceptional journalism. But because so many, I think, news leaders can feel like that is in the way, it's too touchy feely, they're not therapists, or whatever, whatever are the reasons why the news cycle is too demanding, my team is too big, you know, whatever it is the case. Right? They're missing the fact that what we're really talking about is not some deep hours-long situation of showing that you care. We're not even talking about like handpicking Christmas gifts at this point. We are just talking about caring about people. That's literally it. And if you care about the journalists that report to you, they are gonna deliver. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:01:00]: Welcome to the Local News Matters podcast, where we explore pathways to stronger journalism, better businesses, and healthier communities. I'm Tim Regan-Porter, CEO of the Colorado Press Association.  

This episode, I talk with Samantha Ragland, Vice President of Journalism Programs at the American Press Institute. Sam’s work empowers local news organizations to connect with diverse communities through cultural transformation, community engagement and sustainable practices for both the journalists and the business of journalism. A former Poynter faculty member and director of the flagship Leadership Academy for Women, she has trained journalists globally on resilience, creativity  and innovation. She is most called upon to facilitate cross-generational conversations on workplace well-being, inclusion and leadership.  

In this conversation, Sam shares practical strategies for fostering well-being, balancing people sustainability with business sustainability, and creating a culture of care and connection that doesn’t sacrifice the quality of the journalism. 

This is the second episode in a series on mental health in the newsroom. The first, in episode 50, explored the findings of the RJI report on burnout and offered practical solutions newsroom leaders can implement to make real progress. Next episode, we’ll conclude the series with Dan Harris, who pivoted from a high-pressure career at ABC News to becoming a full-time advocate for mental health and mindfulness.  

If you like this episode and what we're doing more generally, please follow in your favorite podcast app, leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, and tell your friends about us. This is a side project and a labor of love, and your support means a lot. You can find past episodes, full transcripts, and relevant links, and sign up for our newsletter at localnewsmatterspodcast.com, or for lazy typists like me at lnmpod.com. You also follow us on most social media channels @lnmpod. 

And now I bring you Samantha Ragland.

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:02:54]: Well, welcome, Sam, to the podcast. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:02:56]: Hi. Thanks for having me. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:02:57]: You and I have crossed the path a few times, but I wanted you on the podcast to talk about mental health in the newsroom and maybe the news organization more generally, not just the reporters and editors. Although I imagine that'll be where a lot of our focus is. This is part of a series I'm doing. So I talked to a couple of people involved in the RJI report on burnout. And then I'll have an upcoming episode with Dan Harris, who's a former ABC News journalist, who's now full time on his meditation and mindfulness gig. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:03:32]: Very good. Well, for him, he got out. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:03:35]: Yeah. Well, don't say that. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:03:38]: We want him to stay. I always feel like journalism calls you back. It's like home. Right? And, like, home always calls you back. And I'm like, journalism, we don't know how it's gonna be standing, but it will. And it'll typically call journalists back. 

Sustainability from both the people and the business perspective  

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:03:51]: Although, I imagine almost everyone listening to this can relate to “he got out”. We've all probably felt that at times and felt the pull to stay or come back. And we're talking the day after the election. So this is gonna be on our minds probably as we're talking, but it's a broader discussion that, you know, predates 2016, predates Trump, but certainly that's been a factor in what's going on in newsrooms, but it's one of many things. And, of course, the MAGA movement is part of everything that makes America America, good and bad. So this is, this didn't start in 2016. So we'll just set that as a base. One of the reasons I reached out to you is you had participated in a mental health— I'm forgetting the name of it, but a mental health conference. So talk a little bit about that gathering and why you got involved. And you've been doing work that touches on this and helping newsrooms and journalists for a while. So just give us a little bit of your background and particularly as it relates to this topic. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:04:55]: Yeah. Yeah. You're referring to the Global Mental Health Summit by The Self-Investigation, which was just a few weeks ago, in honor of World Mental Health Day. I think it was October 11th or October 10th. And API was a strategic partner of that conference. One of the things that we talk a lot about at the American Press Institute under the leadership of CEO Michael Bolden is that we need to think about holistic organization sustainability. And while I know that that can be hard for people who are like, how can we sustain people if we're not making the bottom line? Right? And I would argue the opposite of that. What if you make the bottom line and don't have anybody who wants to work in this industry? Because it's just that hard. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:05:38]: It's just that hazardous. And so we talk a lot about sustainability from both the people and the business perspective here at API. And that just hits right at my core. Right? I've been doing a lot of work in mental health and journalist well-being for many, many years, now working with trauma therapists and partnering with other mental health and resiliency experts to build out really curated training experiences, coaching, training. We actually, at API, even hosted the first mental health summit for journalists here stateside. Last October, we brought together 60 local and community news leaders to Atlanta to really wrestle with the hazards of the work and how they can really be a part of solutions. And I think that for a lot of news leaders, they either feel like they're the only one thinking about the solutions, or because they are limited in access to who else is moving in this space, they don't have a use case. Right? As a features editor, I need a use case to go to my publisher to say, this is one of the new protocols we need to put in place to protect our journalists. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:06:49]: And so, the mental health summit was awesome because it was all about practitioners at the leadership level who were moving forward on people sustainability work in the newsroom, and they got to share what that was like, what hurdles they've run into, what they would have done differently. Obviously, hindsight is 2020. And then we keep moving forward. And, you know, kind of in addition to that, you know, API is known for curating rooms of non-news spaces, rooms of non-news experts in our summits. And so, we are deeply connected to the research world. We brought in specialists in moral injury and burnout, specialist, certified specialists in mental health—first aid, for example—and really exposed news leaders to all of the opportunity that was there, not just for them to protect their people, but, like, they need to also protect themselves. Right? Like, since I've been doing this work, what I have found is that news leaders are managing through their own stress and trauma. And they believe that if anybody needs to compartmentalize, it's them because they are responsible for other people in the newsroom. And that is incredibly lonely. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:08:01]: And we are already, post pandemic, kind of sitting in a space of, like, social poverty and despair. And so for news leaders to think that they need to absorb everything and give nothing is also, it's unrealistic, and it's unfair when we also need them in their positions of power and authority to keep moving things forward for the communities that these newsrooms serve. 

Start by prioritizing the people in your organization 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:08:26]: And there's a lot there I wanna dig into and follow-up on. Starting with, you know, you started with, you know, why is this important when, you know, we've got to make our deadlines and we're strapped, and it just, it falls down the list of our priorities as leaders. And sometimes it falls down the list of our priorities as journalists because you're just focused on that next deadline. And so I wanna dig into that a little bit. And one of the things that's interesting to me, that's really resonating, I'm reading a book called Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Godara, who's a restaurateur, went pretty quickly from, you know, at a young age to, you know, help take Eleven Madison Park in New York to become the top rated restaurant. But one of the things he focuses on in his book is really starting with the health and well-being of your team. And you can move to the health and well-being of, in his case, the restaurant. And he makes an explicit point. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:09:26]: This is not a book about restaurants. This is a book about pretty much all businesses that interact with society, with customers, especially. But if you don't have a team that is energized and healthy and well, you will not deliver good hospitality, good products. You will not be doing your job. And that's really your first priority as a leader is to take care of the health of your team and get, you know, it goes all the way back to Jim Collins and Good to Great, you know, start with getting the right people on the bus in the right seats. So yeah. Just can you riff a little bit about the importance of this work even in the face of deadlines and a business that you're struggling to make sustainable and a society that seems to be falling apart and our work is never more important? Why take the time to look inward? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:10:17]: Yeah. I mean, well, it's no easy feat. Right? Especially when you add to that that most newsroom editorial leaders are often also responsible now for content in some way. Right? So they're doing their columns and their cuts in addition to running the team. And so, but I agree with you. I have said for quite some time that, like, if you can, as a people leader, your primary responsibility is to the people. And in our case, in journalism, in local news, and daily news coverage especially, it is hard to prioritize people over product, but you can. And when you do, you will get exceptional journalism. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:10:59]: Oftentimes, I think so I think we, like, need a perspective shift too. Right? Like, we can prioritize the journalist and we can still get really great journalism. But because so many, I think, news leaders can feel like that is in the way, it's too touchy feely, they're not therapists or whatever are the reasons why the news cycle is too demanding, my team is too big, you know, whatever it is the case. Right? They're missing the fact that what we're really talking about is not some deep hours-long situation of showing that you care. We're not even talking about, like, handpicking Christmas gifts at this point. We're just talking about caring about people. That's literally it. And if you care about the journalists that report to you, they are gonna deliver because they're gonna be more enabled to deliver. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:11:48]: Right? There's a level of psychological safety that comes when you are caring toward your team. And caring means turning your phone over so that you don't see the notifications when a reporter walks into your office. Caring means, not just shipping the story, but coming back and saying, hey, this was like a hard edit. Even for me, it was an emotionally taxing story. Talk me through how you are. And like really wanna hear the answer. Caring is saying, you know what? Thanks for getting this, thanks for trying to get this story in on deadline. It could actually wait a couple days. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:12:22]: It could wait a couple days. Right? Like, there are all kinds of small, really they don't cost us a lot of money moves to show that you care. And I think about it a lot, Tim, because I remember my newsroom, the Palm Beach Post, which is nowhere near what it was when I was there. And I know that there are former journalists who are like, oh my God, you may know what it was like. Right? Because I came so late. I will tell you this, that when I was so deep into a level of burnout that I didn't even recognize my face in the mirror, I reflected back to my time at the Palm Beach Post. And I reflected back because my question was, at the height of the pandemic, I'm burned out, I don't know who I am, I'm not being a good wife, I'm not being a good mom, I'm not being a good sibling, I'm definitely not being a good friend. Why am I burned out now when I never got burned out in the newsroom? I was on one of the most caring teams, not just for me caring about the team, but I had leadership who cared. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:13:19]: And don't get me wrong, The Post was a legacy newsroom like any other. Right? Like, we had our digital/print situation. Right? And it was, like, kind of, like, spicy at times. But the truth of the matter is that people really cared. They really cared. Like, it was nothing for that newsroom to take up a donation because an intern needed new brakes. There's nothing limiting that newsroom from doing, you know, random cookie bake offs, and dressing up full figure during Halloween, small tiny things. In the middle of budget season having having cornhole competitions in my office. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:13:57]: That happened. Tabletop cornhole, not even the real thing. And yet, what did that tell me? What did that communicate to me? When leadership was like, I need to, like, shake it off before I head into my next meeting. Let's do cornhole, or let's color on the group poster, or let's sit down and do a couple pieces of the puzzle. Well, it communicated that there are times for firm boundaries, and there are times for flexible boundaries. They were doing that for them, but what it was doing for me was mirroring other and giving me permission. Right? To also have the same types of relationships and behaviors with my own team. We laughed all the time. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:14:34]: We laughed all the time. It was nothing for a newsroom across departments to take a post lunch walk to the Cuban cafe around the corner because we needed our café con leche. We needed it more than newsroom gasoline coffee. And that in and of itself was an act of care. The conversations that you have on the walk with people you don't work with. The fact that you're outside having a walking meeting that isn't really a walking meeting, trying to order your coffee in Spanish and laughing with the ladies who see you every day. All of this is both connection and care done intentionally. And it cost nobody in the Palm Beach Post a dime. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:15:12]: There were leaders. There were journalists. And when I think back on it, I'm like, no wonder I didn't burn out. There were too many opportunities for me as a leader and as a direct report to complete the stress cycle. And this was a hard newsroom. Right? Like, this was the newsroom that we shipped people down to cover Parkland and shipped them up to Orlando to cover Pulse. Donald Trump was in our backyard. Right? And so there are all kinds of things that would contribute to direct or indirect trauma exposure, compassion fatigue and burnout. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:15:44]: And yet, the newsroom operated and the people within it and I talk to my old team all the time, and it's crazy to hear that it wasn't just from my perspective when I'm talking about. We talk about it often. It took a group effort across the newsroom to be able to experience this. And because I know I experienced it once, I'm like, it's possible. It's possible to have this in a newsroom and to be healthier collectively in the way that you regard the work and your relationship with the work. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:16:16]: Yeah. And it's a crucial point that, yes, everyone would love bigger newsrooms to take the workload off. Everyone would love better pay, but that's not what we're talking about here. It’s not required. Those all would be great, but we're not going back to the heyday. Right? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:16:32]: Right. Well, and think about it too. Better, more resources helps in part. But if you were adding resources to an unhealthy culture, then you don't just have more resources. What you have is more unhealthy resources. You have more resources that are in battle with their relationship with the work. Right? Like, and so, yeah, you have more people. But, like, also, do you like, do you have all of them? Do you have their full commitment, their full excitement, their full engagement? Well, when you're bringing them into a newsroom that is largely unhealthy, then no, you're just contributing to more people really having that tug, right, that we talked about earlier, like exiting or coming back or leaving or disengaging, doing the work but disengaging, which is, you know, in from my perspective, as somebody who only ever wanted to be in local news, the last thing our communities need are disengaged journalists. 

Moving from hero to host to get things off your plate 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:17:31]: Oh, let's talk a little bit about—so I assume at API, you work with all kinds of newsrooms. Right? All sizes, all media, and people in all different situations. So, you know, if you're working for a metro daily, part of a chain, you've got different pressures than if you're, you know, a solo community weekly family. You know, maybe it's a couple, maybe it's one person. And each of those presents their own unique stresses. What have you seen that's unique in how you deal with it? You know, if you're at a, you know, West Palm Beach and you've got a team that can help each other out, that's great and wonderful, and we don't do enough of that. If you're feeling, if you're the only reporter in the newsroom or you're just maybe you're even part of a bigger newsroom but you're isolated in wherever you are, what kind of approaches have you seen on that end of the spectrum? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:18:28]: Well, I mean, honestly, for both sides of the spectrum, one of our biggest problems is, trying to do all of it. So whether you're in a newsroom with a large team, a newsroom with, you know, three or four bodies, or whether you're in a newsroom and you are the newsroom of one, it is an eyes are bigger than the stomach situation. Right? That we see so much need in our community and we wanna cover and do as much as possible. And so we're all doing too much. And it has a lot to do with, I think, old school, you know, daily news mentality if you can't publish the same thing twice. Right? Even though we know, especially in digital, people miss stuff. And you know what? Like, you're gonna call me crazy. People are gonna be like, oh, my god. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:19:18]: Did Sam just say that they republished features in the feature section? We did, Tim. Publish a feature day tripping story, and then you're seeing it six months later with a new photo, a new headline, and it's the same story. We tested all kinds of things, very much to the appreciation of the audience because there is too much information out there and we're the only ones in the bubble. And so how do you stop doing things? If you don't have somebody to delegate to, then what is it that you're actually gonna stop doing so that the—all of the, you know, all of the yeses that we're saying are contributing to the mental health crisis in our newsrooms, small and large. But not all of the yeses are serving our community or are serving our mission. Right? So what are we doing that we really shouldn't be doing? What are we doing that should be delegated off of our plate whether to somebody in the newsroom or to a potential community partner? Right? Like, we talk a lot about that and we talk a lot about inroads and communities who don't trust the local news. But we believe actually, there's this really great  kind of mindset that I learned about earlier this year through the National Equity Project, and it's called, Hero to Host Leadership. And it's really is fascinating. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:20:43]: And you can imagine what it's like just by hearing the name. But, essentially, it's an equity practice and principle that we should, in our work, in our day to day, but especially when we convene communities, which most local newsrooms are really prioritizing, we should shift from being a hero in this situation, the person who has to have all of the answers, who does all of the work or quarterbacks all of the work, to the host of the problem, of the question in a way that allows us to cocreate solutions, instead of feeling like the onus is completely on me. And this is both, I think, a part of newsroom culture to be the hero. We have the access. We have the press pass. Right? And so I'm gonna tell you what's the news. We've heard it. Right? But the community doesn't want that from us. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:21:35]: And it's not sustainable for us to lead or report in a way that moves us over the audience into this hero position of authority. But in addition to that, it's personal. Right? So one of the things that I talk a lot about with newsrooms of one and newsrooms of a 100 is where did you come from. Right? Because if you were adopting a hero leadership mentality and it is impacting your mental health because it always will, then the next question becomes, why are you overvaluing that part of your work? Right? It's the same you know, like, there are cultural implications there. For example, when I left the newsroom and wasn't really sure I was gonna land, of course, my dad was like, you better not go anywhere until you have another job. It's a cultural implication of staying somewhere that's unhealthy for me. Right? Because I don't have something else, or leaving academia for news. I made that move years ago. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:22:34]: And my parents and my dean was like, what are you doing? Do you not see what's happening to news? You're gonna leave the stability of academia. We saw where that came, like, where that's got us. Right? Like, you're gonna leave the stability of academia for local news. Right? And so, everybody has, they're dealing with, like, present cultural tensions, and they're dealing with cultural and historic cultural tensions as well as we're doing the work, which takes us back to the first point. Right? If you don't manage the journalist first, then you're never gonna know these things or you're never gonna be trusted enough that when the time comes that you need to ask me about it, I can say, I’m gonna need to, like, holler at you about something that's like you all know about it. But, like, I'm a black woman in America, and this is what I lived through. And I need you to know before we go into the story. Right? But I can't tell you that if you aren't leading me as a person, as the priority, as opposed to just managing the product of the journalism that I'm giving you. 

Delegating, stopping tasks, and managing workload 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:23:36]: There's a lot there too. I'm thinking to the stop-doing because I think that's something we're not good at. And some of it starts with what you were talking about: republishing. I mean, I've seen this as an editor, you know, reporters would say, well, we did that story five years ago. You know, this was a new story, but it's the same topic. And it's like, well, does anybody know? Like, there's a reason it's still an issue or there's a, you know, or it's just time to remind people and there might be a new angle. We have a, you know and if you look at tech and how they've eaten our lunch, a lot of it's around information. I mean, Google's goal is to organize the world's information. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:24:14]: Yelp took basically what we were doing in terms of restaurant reviews and guides and made it, you know, something that would be centralized and easy to find. And we don't think that way. We think as reporters who wanna report on something new. But I guess to the bigger picture of what do we stop doing, you know, look at evergreen stories, look at, you know, republishing. But what else can, how else do you think we should think through, what are we doing? What's the value of it? Is it worth doing? And what is it costing me? What am I not doing because I won't stop this other thing? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:24:45]: Yeah. I mean, that what am I not doing is, like, really, really important. I think especially for leaders who—if you are a news leader who wants to prioritize the mental health of your team, one of the first things that you can do is ask what's on their plate that they shouldn't be doing anymore. Everybody has an answer, Tim. I still have answers. And I haven't been in the newsroom in, like, five years and I still have answers. I'm like, if only Clay would have asked me. Right? Like, I would have said I'm stopped doing this. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:25:11]: So we all have answers for that. And we should all be asked. I think that we should all be doing a time audit. What are we spending the most, what are we spending our time on that if things were given efficiencies or taken off our plate, we would have more time to devote to other things. I think an energy audit is also really important. It was one of the things that helped me out of my burnout. And in fact, my calendar is still organized in this way. Every meeting has a specific color. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:25:40]: A one-on-one gets a specific color. A brainstorm type of meeting gets a specific color. This meeting has a specific color. I need to know how am I showing up in the day? And am I using parts of my brain and my emotional capacity in a way that sustains me? Or am I doing a one on one, and then something thought leadership, and then something budget, and then a team meeting, and I have to use all of myself every single day. Right? And so, you can stop doing lots of things. You can start deputizing certain meetings to your rising stars. Something else news leaders don't do often enough is identify who could take their place or how they're coaching someone out of the team. We often talk about coaching someone out of an organization because they're an underperformer. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:26:24]: We don't talk enough about coaching someone up and out, right? In the way that, like, for me, and I'm so glad I had a news boss. My digital director was like this, but was like, if you were gonna be here all the time, what is that serving you? Right? Like, I only have so much that I can teach my team. He only had so much that he could teach me. And the goal was to coach you out into your next role, not out of journalism. Right? But we're so focused on the underperformers. We're so focused on the disengaged that we're letting our rising stars walk out of the door, because we're not engaging them in a healthy level. And so, you could start doing that. I think too that you have to think about really the most important part of like delegating, which no leader is ever taught ever how to delegate. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:27:11]: It's very scary, especially for women. But the most important part of delegating is to delegate with purpose. Who's on my team? What are their strengths and their opportunities? And how do I see their potential? Answer those questions. And then go into the list of things that are on your plate that you can't stop doing because they have to be done, but they should not be being done by you anymore. And how do you delegate that over to someone because you know it is serving their potential. Right? It is helping set them up to grow either in their role from a cub reporter to to a columnist or a columnist to a senior investigative reporter or a reporter to an editor. Everybody has a path. And one of the things that I hear when I coach young journalists, as well as when I was coaching my own team is, what if I don't wanna be a reporter forever? But in my newsroom, I don't know where I would go. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:28:06]: Right? And that's a real problem that the pathways for early career talent are not as clear if you don't want to stay on the hard and straight editorial growth path. Right? And we could be doing more. We could be doing more. I mean, every I guess it was the last two positions that I had in my newsroom were positions that didn't exist on paper. I worked with my boss for for weeks in our one on ones to build the position that we needed and that I wanted to occupy. And that was an awesome place of privilege that actually could come around a lot more often if news leaders led their people. And when you lead your people, you know where they are and you know where you know they can go. 

Developing early career journalists 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:28:51]: Yeah. And I think, you know, that's such an important point. And being good at that also makes your life easier as a news leader, and you do better work. Your organization does better work. And I also don't think we realize some of the biases, and we'll get to race and gender in that a little bit later. But even just the professional bias we bring, I brought on try not to to make it too clear in case anybody's listening that knows the situation. But I brought on a young journalist who I saw a lot of potential, like, a way of creatively thinking about things and what's needed. And some other editors, frankly, were kind of rude behind his back and, you know, he didn't write the cleanest copy. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:29:34]: Right? And that was just a cardinal sin to them. And that journalist has now gone on and won a major national award at another company. And not only that, but other organizations in that parent company are replicating the work he did. And if we had ushered him out, managed him out because his, you know, grammar or whatever wasn't as clean as we wanted, you know, that he would have been lost and communities would have suffered because the work he was doing was really important. And so I think we've gotta also be aware of the way we look at it is not necessarily the only way to look at it. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:30:11]: That's exactly right. Well, and that is why, you know, I think, it's why I I'm such a huge proponent of, like, hiring panels, for example, because when I have done that, I have been really mindful of that role that I was hiring for and the expertise that I wanted on the role. And then the hiring panel wasn't ever just my team or ever just me and my boss. Right? The hiring panel included somebody from video or included somebody from marketing or whatever the case is. Because I was looking for a specific skill set, and I needed the level of experience and cognitive diversity of these other people to make sure that I was hiring the right person. Because a hole in the resume or a hole in the skill set, like you mentioned, looks like a hole to me. But is that hole outweighed with this other potential that I can fill that in? Right? I mean, I had a reporter very similar. The copy was not clean. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:31:03]: I was spending so much time editing this copy. I was so sad. I was so sad. And when my boss said to me, again, in one of our one on ones, which we had every single week. Right? He was like, Sam, you have got to teach him to write better copy. Because if you don't, you'll have no other time to do anything else that we need you to do because you're stuck. Right? And so he said, it's gonna take considerable effort on the front end. It will save you so much time on the back. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:31:30]: And so, I'm so grateful for that. And what did I do? Well, he's like such a great writer. He's such a great writer right now. And he, I mean, I had him read Strunk and White's Elements of Style. We read and did book talks around William Zinsser's On Writing Well. Like, I went classic old school language and composition. And over about three months, the copy just evolved. His first draft copy became a second or a third. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:31:57]: And so, I was working with something and spending less, and he was also more confident in spending less time. Right? But it took so much time on the front to, like, lead him as a person, as a writer. But on the back, how much time did it save me? How much time did it save him? How what did it do for him vying for promotions and everything else. Right? And this was a journalist of color who could have been so defeated that he was like, it's not worth it. I'm gonna go back to what I was doing because the writing thing is not working for me. Right? But it did. It worked for him just fine. But it was, that to me is also like a creative intervention. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:32:30]: Right? And when we talk about, like, this kind of overall conversation of just, like, the well-being of a workplace, In order to really get it right, your interventions to help people stay on track or get back on track will be unique to the person. And if you weren't giving yourself enough time to be creative in the way you lead people, you're missing that opportunity. Right? And then all kinds of things can sink in. Imposter syndrome, which contributes to burnout, especially among women and people of color. Right? And they don't have to have imposter syndrome. You could be talking them right out of it. You could be speaking confidence into their life in a way that every time they feel their inner critic saying “meh meh meh meh”, they're like, you a lie, and they keep it moving because you got them there. Right? That's, like, so tiny. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:33:17]: Yeah. Your example too reminds me of another, young person who, which is back when I was at Paste Magazine, you know, a music magazine, applied three times before he got the just an internship. And he got it finally in, I think, multimedia video, but he hustled, and he worked his ass off, and he was freelancing for eventually the New York Times and The Guardian, and he works for ProPublica now and does, like, super in-depth hard hitting stuff. And we, you know, we tend to write people off way too easily and don't give them space to grow and the mentoring. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:33:54]: We do. And, you know, I just I love that you said that. I know that you mentioned that this is a part of a larger series. And I'm so grateful for that RJI study, but it reminds me of one of my favorite data points from that study about hope and sentiment of pessimism versus, like, hope. I don't know if you all talked about that in that episode or not. But what I found so fascinating was just how hopeful or less pessimistic early career journalists are to their other reporting counterparts. Likewise, just how much more hopeful or less pessimistic people managers are to their reporters. And so, when you think about, like, the talent on this kind of like spectrum, managers with an early career team, when you put them together, they're some of the most hopeful and least pessimistic people in the newsroom. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:34:47]: If a manager were to just meet that early career where they are and coach the hell out of them, oh my gosh. It would be so good. The manager would be refilled, right? The reporter would be filled up, the manager would see potential, the reporter would see potential, their stress cycle is always being completed. There's like all types of like positive opportunity there. Right? Which can also, I think, be contagious. Right? Like as somebody like in my former newsroom, I absorbed disengaged staff and I knew that I could reengage them. And it took a lot of steps and it took a lot of time. But in some instances, I was very, very successful. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:35:29]: Right? And I think some of that had to do with when you're put on a team that believes and is hopeful. Like, yeah, I've been burned, but I still believe. And you become kind of like the, your perspective of it's never gonna work, is the odd the odd perspective out. It becomes a lot easier to kind of be absorbed into the hope of others. Right? Which I saw happen. And I think there's still, the newsroom is ripe for potential for that across entire organizations, not just individual teams within an organization. 

Re-examine story requirements, enlist technology and partners and stop multitasking 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:36:07]: And just circle back to that stop doing. You know, I think part of what we should be looking at is the types of stories we write, how we tell them, who do we enlist. I've seen, I think I'm seeing and I'm curious if you see the same thing. A lot of the chains had moved away from some of the basic city council, school board coverage, and that sort of thing. And I think I'm seeing a shift back to that, certainly still a large part of smaller community weeklies. Does that require you to attend every meeting and be a I don't mean this as pejorative as it sounds, but be a stenographer? Enlist technology and let you know, think about a documenters program or are there other organizations? Are there community members you can enlist? Earn Your Press Pass is a great little tool. Are there ways you can get some of that basic work done without you investing your time and energy if you think there are more important things, you know, to be working on? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:37:06]: Yeah. Well, yes. And you listed all of the ones that I would have listed. And I would add to that those types of meetings, if we need to be there to hear where the story is, which is often the case, then we need to be there. And that's fine. On the management side, though, it's the requirement that because you were there, I need 12 inches. Right? Or I need the story, which is where the waste of time really comes from. Right? Because even in like—look. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:37:36]: Like, we got some counties here in Palm Beach that are, like, really, like, Pawnee and Leslie. No. And it's like the meetings will go on forever. Right? And they are, like, so spicy, and it is so fun. And so it's like, okay. I had to spend four hours here, but, wow, that was crazy. And I learned this and I saw these power dynamics. And, no, it doesn't serve me now, but it's gonna serve me later. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:37:57]: And so how do we help news leadership make the pivot that, like, presence does not need to equal product. Like, it doesn't need to equal the output, like, the immediate output. Right? Because our people need to be in these communities. They need to be connected in the communities that they're serving and that they're reporting on which is often the communities that they're living in. Like they need to be there. And that also helps their mental health too. Like just being out of the office, connecting, hearing, seeing, all of that is important and doesn't always need a story attached. Often doesn't need a story at all. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:38:35]: And just to go back to that delegate piece, you know, look at community partnerships. But also, you know, I've started playing around with a remote worker overseas as an assistant, like, get some of that stuff off your plate. I hope there aren't people doing this, but I bet there are. If you're transcribing all of your interviews yourself, like, the technology is so far advanced. Like, are you looking at those basic things? And it's kinda like the editing story you told. Sometimes, you need to take some time to make your future self's life easier. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:39:06]: That's exactly right. That's exact and what does that look like? You know, like, in the product world, they have, like, documentation days. Right? Where, like, they're just running a 100 miles an hour, but maybe once a quarter or a couple times a quarter, they'll, as a team, gather and say we're documenting today. Nothing else is on the plate besides documentation. And I think, like, on the editorial side, on the leadership side, what does the documentation day look like? Is it spending a day really learning Grammarly, and how it can speed up parts of your editing process? Right? Or is it choosing which transcription tool you wanna use going forward and making an an because some of it is like risk, right? And so how do we test it with something that's low stakes to see if it's gonna work before we decide to take it into the field with us? And so I think that, yeah. I think, wouldn't that be a nice formal policy to have in a local newsroom? It's like mandatory official documentation or learning days, so that you can do some of that on the front end in order to get the gains back on the back. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:40:10]: Absolutely. Yeah. In the tech world, there's this thing called technical debt, which is you're going a 100 miles an hour. You're writing code that works, but it's kinda fragile. And if you don't take care of that technical debt, at some point, it's all gonna come crashing down. And every change you make becomes harder. And so they do have to take those times to go rewrite something or just clean things up. And, yeah, I think that would be a great practice in the newsroom. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:40:34]: That's right. That's reminding me now. Like, I wonder if, I guess email debt is technically a thing too. Right? But if it's gonna take you two minutes to respond, just respond. Don't hold off. Right? I think the other side of that is how behavior like that is rewarded and how it's publicized in our newsrooms. Right? That if somebody is gonna take a day to rid themselves of the technical debt or if an editor is gonna take a couple of days to maybe assign some longer longer term projects and they got their entire reporting team is doing some of that. They all know what they're doing. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:41:09]: And the reporters know that their manager is in deep work time. I'm doing this closed door, zero access to Sam Because if I can, it's gonna do a, b, and c for us when I open this door. Right? Which means now they're also protecting you and your time. And then you do the work. Right? And you've got these receipts. All of that is, it's important. Right? I think one of the things that I have found that news leaders are most surprised by, is this idea of attentional residue, which is just this neuroscience concept of what happens to your brain and its ability to process and move forward when you are taking on too much. So the first thing is we idolize multitasking, which isn't real. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:41:55]: You can single task very quickly, but multitasking isn't cognitively possible. And every time you single task and move to another task before you're finished, you leave a part of your mental load and capacity with the previous unfinished task. And so it's very much like Velcro. With the previous unfinished task. And so it's very much like Velcro. Your rough side and your fabric side, and pieces of the fabric get stuck on the rough side when you pull it apart. And then you wonder why you can't make a decision for dinner. You don't have any more decision ability left. Right? Like you have used all of your attention has been left across this multitude of tasks. Right? And so, we need, how do we do it? How do we do it? How do you do it in a way that across your newsroom? I think one of the things I've heard for years, Tim, is like how important it is to have like no meeting days, and how desperate people, editors, and managers, in newsrooms want a day of no meetings. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:42:53]: Desperately want a day to do work. Right? And really, if you can carve that out and then decide you're not just gonna carve out no meetings today, but you're gonna do one task at a time until it's finished. That means you only get to two tasks in a day. You end the day with more energy, with more drive, with more hope because you got these things off your plate, which means it opens up your brain to do more tomorrow. That doesn't cost a dime. You don't need Headspace app for that. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah. 

Manage the sense of urgency in the newsroom, take a break and set boundaries 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:43:23]: No. And there's been a lot of writing, in the business world about this sort of how—Cal Newport calls it the hyperactive hive mind that you've established. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:43:32]: I know it. Yeah. Yeah. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:43:33]: And he—I recommend Deep Work and A World Without Email. I haven't read his new Slow Productivity, but there are all kinds of people who've written about this and, you know, the attention residue. Mhmm. And it's per I think it's particularly bad in journalism because we perceive everything as urgent. Right? Like, I had we at the Paste Magazine, we hired someone from a major metro daily who was on his honeymoon when James Brown died and was called to write that obituary on his honeymoon. That's when he knew he had to leave. And there is no reason that could have been handed off. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:44:08]: It's not an urgent thing, you know, particularly, they probably should have had something like that ready anyway. Wow. But, you know, that's an extreme example, but we see that kind of thing. We think everything is so urgent, and that's also part of the stop doing. It's just realizing 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:44:25]: That's exactly right. And that is, it is very hard to combat. I'm trying to think about, like, what that is. But I remember managing urgency off of people's plates and they would still come in and say that it was urgent. And I'm like, it's not urgent. It's not urgent. It's not a priority. Take two extra days. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:44:41]: Right? Like, and so there's this level of expectation. And don't get me, I'm, my boss literally last week was saying, do I need—are you seeking like, are you looking for permission to not do this? Because to me, I was like, it has to be done. It's urgent, and we need to do it. And he was just like, wait, wait, wait a second. Sounds like we have a capacity issue. And I'm like, well, I just want to do what you think is best, which he thought was so funny. Right? And he's just like, if you're looking to not, you know, then don't. Then, like, don't. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:45:06]: And it's like even though I know these things, he's managing the urgency out of me. And I think that, like, we have to remember, as people, old habits die hard. And in an industry that is so beholden to deadlines, everything feels like it has to be on deadline in order to be completed. And so there are tiny behavioral changes that need to happen every day across everybody in the newsroom in order for the urgency to downshift into important. Right now, and I think I have seen this even worse post pandemic, beyond pandemic to present is exactly that. That it is so hard to not treat everything like it's urgent. But we have to. We have to. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:45:54]: One of the things I talk with journalists about, especially political reporters, over the past six months has been helping them understand surge capacity, and what that really means to their resilience. Right? That, like, we have a reservoir of backup resilience in our bodies, in our minds that will push us through extreme distress. The breaking news incident, the traffic accident, whatever is—the pandemic. The pandemic, however, caused us to think that we could surge forever. Like that it was connected to the core of the earth and you could just always get, you know, like it's just a plug in and it's not. It runs out. Your resilience runs out. Your surge capacity needs to be refilled. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:46:46]: And the only way that you refill your ability to surge through traumatic coverage, to surge through is to rest. Is to actually strategically stop doing things. Right? Because it's not just take the day off. That'll make it better. Because it has an old pastor, former pastor friend of mine said, wherever you go, that's where you are. And I'm like, oh my gosh, he is right. So I can be stressed at work or you can say, go take a PTO. That was a stressful story and I'm gonna be stressed on my couch. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:47:20]: Right? And so it's not any kind of rest, but it's very specific strategic rest and a strategic decision to stop doing something that will refill your ability to surge. It will refill your resilience. And so as a skill set and as an opportunity for growth, news leaders across the country gotta get excellent at helping people stop doing things and reward them for that. Celebrate that they stopped because when they show back up, they are ready to go, Tim. They're like, I am rested. I have stopped. I didn't think. I watched the paint dry. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:48:00]: I'm ready to go, you know, and they're really, really ready. And now that we know what we know, post election, we cannot treat this next four years as we treated the pandemic, like breaking news cycle for four years. We don't have the resilience. We don't have capacity. We don't have the bodies. We actually don't have the people in the room. And so where are your opportunities to prioritize your journalist and help them redefine their value based on what they're doing and also what they're not doing? 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:48:33]: Yeah. And one of the most extreme examples of not doing—I've had a couple people on the podcast, I think it's two. And one was definitely a monthly. They take off a month a year. They, like, do not publish. And that sounds shocking, but that's pretty common actually in the magazine world. We would combine, you know, June/July, January/February. Build some resilience, build some space in there for you to be resilient. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:48:56]: Yeah. No. I think you're right. And it's becoming more common for, like, newsletter products and newsletter product managers to have some baked in time off where they're not publishing. And, you know, from what I can tell and from what I have read, just announcing that you're taking this amount of time off and you'll be back at this point. Right? And give yourself some room. It is possible to do that. And on the consumer side, if we can just be real with each other, just you and me, Tim, we could also use a break. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:49:25]: Like, not as the news people. We're the news people. But, like, as news people, we're occupying a very interesting space because we're news people. We're also, like, news consumers. And so on the consumer side, it's kind of nice when my favorite newsletter takes a break. It's like one less thing for me. It increases my appetite for more from them when it comes later in the same way that, like, you know, like, where the heck is Stranger Things right now? Everybody wants the final season of Stranger Things. It was supposed to be out this summer. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:49:56]: It's coming out late. Yeah, but it's really the same thing, right? Like, these breaks that were such a part of our culture are no longer a part of our culture. And it's not just impacting our work as journalists, it's impacting our families as families of journalists. It's one of the big takeaways that came out of our mental health summit. We had a family therapist there who talked a lot about boundary setting and routines. And how between boundary setting, deciding what is firm and what is flexible, and a certain set of routines, habits, you can create space between you, the journalist, and you, the father, or you, the wife, or you, the, you know—and how important that was. Right? Because we get home as I'm thinking about how burnt out I was. And I'm just thinking about about my two year old, and I'm thinking about how disengaged I was. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:50:53]: And I just am so sad for him that he had to experience me like that. Right? And there are families all over the country who know that the person that they love isn't the person that they are always are. And so there are true repercussions of what we're talking about for ourselves as people, for the journalism, for the communities that we really wanna reach, that we wanna disarm, that we wanna connect with. When we are wound up and stressed and burned out and disheartened and disengaged and ineffective and cynical, It just comes off of you. You know? 

Manage your story and sentiment mix 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:51:36]: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such an important point. And, one of the things I'll I'm sure I'll talk with Dan Harris about is, you know, as he was talking to people leading up to the election, part of his advice was turn off the news. Don't read. And that's something we don't like to say as journalists, but, you know, we've all felt it. And let's be honest. There was 2016 through 2020, and then there was the pandemic. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:51:58]: Right? And we cannot live at that outrage of the day. Everything feels so consequential, and we gotta do some introspection on how we feed into that. And I think we've gotta do a lot of the heavy hitting reporting, a lot of the education. But we also need this, you know, the cultural stuff might be more important than ever. I mean, you think back to the civil rights movement, there was a lot of turmoil, but Jackie Robinson, Motown, those things, I think, had a big impact in pulling people together outside of all the other stuff that was going on. Right? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:52:38]: Oh, my gosh. I think a lot about that. I think and, you know, one of the challenges that we have issued in our API local news summit, to these news leaders, Tim, is like, will your coverage and your reporting of community contribute to the news diets and the news avoidance of your neighbors? Or will it enable them to pivot back, right, toward an embrace of the news? And in order for that to happen, you cannot sit in despair in the way that you report, in the way that solutions are somebody else's job. Right? In the way that features is the dessert of this, you know, you can't, you've got to change the way that you are thinking about how you're reporting and for whom. I almost think that, like I don't know. I'm, like, kinda radical. I guess if I was still in the newsroom, I would probably make it a part of my team's pitch to pitch a sentiment. And this is the sentiment I'm going for with this story. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:53:38]: Because if you are nailing despair and worry with too many of your pitches, I need to send you back. I mean, like, what is the sentiment that you are hoping for and what is the sentiment you think you're going to get? Right? Because I do think that reporters need to be considering that for the communities. Yeah. But also for themselves. I mean, in the past six months, I have coached more investigative journalists than I've ever coached before. I've also coached more white male journalists than I ever have before in the last six months. And all of them are finding themselves at a critical moment in their career where they're not sure they can go on. We talk a lot about percentage of work. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:54:22]: We talk a lot about how deep you are in the reporting, and have you done enough to get the story. We talk a lot about getting buy-in for the reporting and the assets that are left on the cutting room floor, and how those can spin up into features and solutions journalism stories, and how that can become an X thread or an Instagram post. And we talk a lot about helping them make the psychological move out of reporting on the depths of humanity and getting them back into the light. Their community needs it, but they need it too. They need it too. And we're, you know, because we're not robots. Right? And these are people who this is all I've ever wanted. I'm finally this. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:55:06]: This is all that I've ever wanted. I don't know why I'm feeling this way. I don't know why every time I go out, I just feel like crying. I just, I'm not opening my windows anyway. These are conversations that I have a journalist on a daily basis. Tim, it's crazy. And one of the things that I was so excited to learn about from Dr. Kevin Becker, who's a trauma therapist and has specialized, actually built almost an entire career, out of coming to the psychological first aid of journalists, he's incredible, was just about how we evolve. And he shared a personal story about when he needed to make the change in his therapy practice from supporting youth through trauma to supporting others, and it was when he became a dad. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:55:49]: So often, we think we're in a fixed situation. I will always be able to handle it because I've been handling it. And it's just not the case. This is not the case. We are allowed to evolve. It doesn't make us less of a person or less of a journalist. How do we help each other have those conversations and still feel fulfilled and inspired by the work that we do? Right? That's self care. Like, self care is not nails and facials. Right? Like, how are we giving ourself that kind of compassion? 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:56:22]: Yeah. Yeah. That's super important. And just it it's kind of come up several times in how you coach and deal with people, including yourself, is just, you know, I think one of the useful, fundamental tenets of Buddhism that apply, that you don't need to be a Buddhist, is just that every—impermanence is a fact of life and the feeling stuck is the worst. That is the most disempowering thing and none of us are stuck. Everything is changing. And so 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:56:50]: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. No. I agree. I was thinking recently with a complimentary, biblical perspective is, life is a vapor. Same thing. You don't have to be, it's actually gonna go by so fast. And I think that one of the things that I wrestled with when I was in the newsroom was, like, what is my legacy here? Right? Like, we were in the throes of digital transformation. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:57:12]: We will continue to be in the throes of digital transformation in news, probably forever. And it was hard because you are surrounded by people who were a part of the original legacy. What I found though to be true and is especially true today, all of these years later, is that the legacy is in the people. Right? And when I think about who I managed, who I led, who I hired, who I coached, who I cried with, when I think about those people and I see what they're doing today, my time at the Palm Beach Post was chef's kiss good, and it was bad at times. And there were a lot of times that people were like, I don't even know what you do here. Right? I'm on the digital side. What do you even do here? But the truth of the matter is that the people there were so worth it. Right? And that's coming from an editor. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [00:58:06]: As a reporter, what is that for you? What is this, one of my public media friends, Mariano Avilla says, what is the what is the arc? What is the narrative arc of your career? And if you have begun harm in any way, how do you begin to reconcile that in the way that you report, in the way that you cover, in the way that you share? So that when you look back, you've got this career arc that goes beyond you. Right? Because your reporting did this and your leadership did that. And, you know, that stands in the minds and the hearts of the people. It sounds so fluffy, but it really is true. And we all know it. Because if you ask about who are some of the most important or influential people to you, somebody's gonna say an elementary school teacher, Tim, and you know it. And it's like, wow, an elementary school teacher? Tim, really? Yeah. Right? And how many years ago was that? Right? And so I just think that for all of journalism's desire to support and amplify community, we could be more humane and humanly interested ourselves. 

Authentic leadership and managing journalists of color 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [00:59:18]: So before we get to rapid fire, I wanna segue into talking about the unique aspects for journalists of color and women. But as a segue into that, help me think through something I've struggled with. So there's a lot of conversation, culture in general, business in general, particularly post George Floyd, about bringing your whole self to work. Right? And there was a bit of a backlash against that, and some tech companies said, don't talk politics at all. And it's particularly fraught in the newsroom where, you know, we are supposed to be, you know, and there's debate now that we're supposed to be objective or neutral or whatever, you know, we're not really supposed to be cheerleading a side. You know, and I was in 2016, I was in Macon working alongside a newsroom, and there's a journalist of color leading it. But she had to email the newsroom, which was largely morose, but remind them to watch their conversations because not everybody was morose. That there were some people who supported Trump in 2016. It is just such a fraught thing. How do you think through that? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:00:34]: You know, I'm still evolving in this, Tim, to be honest with you. I remember a few years ago, I was really going through what, you know, essentially amounted to some just kind of, like, racial microaggressions. I was talking to a homegirl of mine who you may know, Dana Lacey. And Dana was like who is so Canadian. I love her so much. And she said to me, Sam, some people don't effing deserve your authentic self. And I was like, are you serious? I could not believe it. Never crossed my mind. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:01:07]: It never crossed my mind because I believed that the more you show up as who you are, the more you give people permission to show up as who they are too. I think about that a lot. And post George Floyd, my advice to journalists has always been that you are creating the relationships today that will enable you to get people's authentic self tomorrow when it really matters. Right? Like, I was one of those Black journalists who, after George Floyd was murdered, got messages from people I haven't talked to in a minute. And they was like, are you okay? Right? And you may remember, Tim, like, on Twitter, it was still Twitter then, people were like, message your Black friends and ask if they're okay. And it's like, but should you, though? Like, are you really my friend like that? Because if you haven't cultivated connection with me, if you haven't made me feel psychologically safe, then why would I ever tell you how I feel right now watching this man be murdered on television? Why would I ever do that? Right? And I'm grateful for the managers that I had at The Post who, having never told me ever to this day that they are an ally, showed me in their behavior every single day that they were not just an ally, but they were an advocate and an amplifier of Samantha Ragland every single day. Every single day. And so how you show up, I think, is really, really, really important to how people are building connection and trust with you so that they can, even if only to you, show their authentic self. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:02:38]: Right? There are plenty of newsrooms where it's just not possible. And I've coached people in that too, and I've coached them right out of the newsroom. Because, look, I'm at API. And what I tell people all the time is my goal is very selfish if I'm coaching a journalist. My goal is to keep you in the industry. You don't have to stay in the newsroom that you're in. Right? But if you are a journalist, if you're a journalist of color, you're a woman. I want you here. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:03:02]: And if that's not the right place for you, then I'm going to show you why. And I'm going to help you get out of there and land some place that's healthier. Because I, so we selfishly want to retain incredible talent, especially retain incredible talent, especially incredible talent from the margins. Right? And I talk to leaders about this too, executive leaders about this now too, that, like, a part of our work is bigger than the newsroom you currently run. If somebody leaves you because they got what they needed or because they didn't get what they needed and they went to another newsroom, it may feel like a loss to you, but it's a win for local journalism because they stayed. Right? And so, you know, I really struggle. I struggle with this idea of authenticity because my natural inclination is to be authentic. I don't, it's very, very hard. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:03:48]: And you can, people think it's crazy, but you can see me at the coffee shop and I'm just like this. You can see me doing a training to a bunch of news execs and I'm be just like this. You can see me in this one on one. And I'm literally exactly like this. It is. It's easier for me to be who I am. Right. But I also had, I come from an incredibly privileged newsroom experience. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:04:12]: And that while there were only a couple people of color in our newsroom, handful, and nearly all leadership was white, they were the kind of white leadership that you wanted leadership there. Right? Because they were like, how do we make sure she is growing, that she is thriving, that she is challenged, that she has the team that she like? They didn't, I didn't get promoted and then be given a team of people who were not digital believers. Right? Which they could have done. They could have set me up. Right? We see it all the time. They didn't. They didn't. I was like, I need to pick this team. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:04:43]: And they were like, we're going to give you half and you're going to pick half. I'll take that compromise. And I built an incredible team. Right? So, yeah, I don't  know if I even answered your question, but I really struggle with that and I understand when journalists of color struggle with that. And it's one of the reasons why I talk so much about my past leadership experience. It's one of the reasons why I talk a lot about why people stay in journalism or in their newsroom. Again, we're so focused on those who are disengaged or we're talking so much about people who are burning out and leaving. There's a whole room of us. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:05:18]: People just like me who, you know, when I got, when I had to when I had to get promoted to corporate, do you know how upset I was? I wanted to stay in the Palm Beach Post newsroom. That offer sat on my desk for almost six weeks. I didn't wanna take that. I don't want—I was happy. I love my team. I love my leadership. I love the work that we were doing. I love the community. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:05:38]: Why would I wanna leave this newsroom? Right? But also, we laughed all the time. I hired a team that had complementary strengths and weaknesses so that nobody ever felt left out, that everybody knew their value. Everybody knew how they contributed. Right? Like, we worked. Why would you ever want to be something that I don't wanna leave, Tim. I didn't wanna leave. So but that was I'm grateful for the leadership who set me up like that. Right. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:06:04]: And so, yeah, I mean, I don't think I answered your question. I think I'm just running off at the mouth. But I share that as often as I can, especially with young journalists of color, because I want them to know that even though it is hard, there are people and teams out there like the one that I came from. And I do believe that, and I have an awesome vantage point. Right? Because I left the newsroom for Poynter, ran the Women's Academy, ran the early career fellowship, built Lead with Influence, and connected to leaders all over the world, especially in the states. And I see what they're doing. And they're contacting me and we're talking about it. And now I'm here at API. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:06:45]: And our local news summits are awesome. And they're not with people who are curious. They're with actual practitioners. We're doing this. We might be doing it alone, but we're gonna do it because we know it's the right way to go. Come. And so I'm seeing it and I'm hearing it and I'm learning about it. And I'm like, people like who I reported to at the Palm Beach Post, they were imperfect people, but they were the right people for me. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:07:11]: And those people exist for other journalists. They may be harder to find, but from my vantage point, they're out there. And I'm just thinking about my mentee. I'm thinking about my mentee who we finally after—like it's what, I've been mentoring him for three years, probably. three years in, like, four newsrooms, and he finally landed at the one that we believe is right. And I'm grateful that he trusted me, and I'm grateful he didn't give up. And I'm sure he's grateful that I didn't give up either. Right? Because he's in a place now where he's like, I feel like I'm being wanted every day. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:07:45]: That's great. I'm thinking about just sort of what should white leaders, male leaders, understand in fostering and supporting journalists of color and women journalists. And let's let's take it as a given, which it's not, that we really need to be focused on the structural issues like pay equity, diversifying your staff, and putting people on the right, giving them the right mentorship and career trajectories so that there are more people of color and women in leadership roles. Like, there's no substitute for that. But if you are white or male and you're in a position of leadership, aside from those structural issues that need addressing, what should we understand that maybe we don't? Or what should we be doing differently? What do you hear some of the, you know, some of the feedback you get that may come as a surprise to people who look like me? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:08:40]: Yeah. I think gosh. I really do think that post George Floyd, so much has changed, which is unfortunate. And that white male leaders seem to be even more careful than they previously were in how they're managing journalists of color. And I think that finding even ground is important. And one of the things that news leaders can do is ask the direct. How do you want to be led? What types of things do you need from me? Every time you give feedback in an annual or semiannual review to your directs, you should be asking your directs for critical feedback of your leadership style and the way that you manage. It should be a two way conversation always, because you have an opportunity to grow there as well. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:09:28]: I think making sure that you are opening up the time and the access. For example, I just mentioned one of my newsroom leaders, and I can tell you today that he has not been my manager in nearly five years, probably going on six. Our one on one was, like, every Thursday at 3:30. Been a long time since I sat in that office. The newsroom is not even in the same office anymore. It's like on a different floor. But he communicated value to me by almost never, almost never canceling. Like, unless we were at a conference or one of us was on vacation, we always met. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:10:04]: My dotted line manager was our digital editor at the time, Johnny Bis. I remember I used to be able to Slack him and be like, I got to talk to you. And it's going to be after three because I know things are crazy for you before three. So just be ready. And he would be, Tim. He would be. And we would close the door and we would—I talk a lot about masterminds in leadership and in the imposter syndrome training that I give. There's this concept of a third brain, and you've probably heard of it from Napoleon Hill. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:10:34]: And the mastermind groups got really popular again. Right? Like, during the pandemic, people were paying good money to be in a mastermind group and be chosen, right, in this, like, group. But Johnny B was one of my masterminds. Right? And the reason why he was one of mine is because I was one of his. He had more seniority, more experience. He was a white man in the newsroom from the sports desk, could not be more typical. Right? I love him. And whenever I needed something, if there was an article that was popping off in the women's leadership Slack, I would message it to my white male bosses and I'd be like, this is popping off. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:11:05]: And when I have my one on ones with y'all, we're going to talk about it. And they would read it and we would talk about it. And so the follow through means a lot. For me, it meant there was continuous permission. The more that they followed through was the more receipts that they got, which means they built more trust, which means I grew in psychological safety. But because of the way that they presented to me, it also means that there were times when they would walk into my office and I'll never forget, one of them walked into my office, closed the door and said, Sam, is the Palm Beach Post racist? And I said, funny you should ask. Have a seat. Now, they were as psychological, they were talking about something was happening in the comment section. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:11:46]: I don't remember. That was the exact question. And I remember pushing back off of my desk. Funny you should ask. Have a seat. And we talked. Right. And so they weren't just developing, you know, increasing my psychological safety with them. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:12:03]: But by the way, I was showing up, by the way, I was asking questions, by the way I was giving follow through, their psychological safety with me increased. And it, for young people, especially for journalists of color, one of the things that is never in a job description is that a part of your job is managing your manager. And for white men in the newsroom, that can be very, very hard to be managed by a direct. And yet, if you allow it to happen, it is a gift. It is a gift. I remember hiring a young person, hiring a new reporter on my team. And I had, you know, a reporter who was with me for about a year and a half come into my office and say, hey, do you want me to do you want me to take so and so to to lunch, and just talk with them about, like, how you work and the best ways to work with you and what, you know, your expectations? And, you know, I gave her my card. I gave her my card and I said, go. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:12:53]: Choose the place that you wanna have for lunch. Thank you. Right? And so just think about it. Right? And so I think that, like, I think that admitting that you don't know everything, admitting that there is always room to learn is important for male management in newsrooms. I also think that showing commitment to your journalist by maintaining your one on one and refusing for your one on one to be about day to day tasks and day to day reporting is critical. We almost never talked about what my team was writing, unless it was something really big, like a Facebook live concert that took multiple weeks and steps to pull together. Right? Never talked about that in these meetings. We talked about leadership. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:13:33]: We talked about Snapchat, which, you know, like, in our strategy and how we're gonna do it, and what does the takeover look like, and what is the legal implications? We talked about all of that stuff. Right? We talked about where I was gonna go next. We talked about why embedding teaching and community engagement, actual outreach, was a part of my job. Why that needed to be there because I believe that I'm a teacher. And I always told them, I will leave the Palm Beach Post to go back to teaching. And their response was, we will make teaching a part of your job. And I went to FAU, and I went to University of Miami, and I was a part of NIE, and I did all this coaching, and I never had to take PTO. Right? It was all a part of the job. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:14:13]: Right? It's crazy. I left them. Right? You hear all this? It's just two Gen Xers as white as they come just chilling in the newsroom. And I'm thinking they are some of my, they are my biggest champions and they proved it. And I remember when we had our Black Lives Matter case was with a young man named Corey Jones. And after the incident happened, I was on the breaking news desk at the time, which meant I was just, like, seeing everything. And Johnny B, I remember going into his office and telling him that we needed to make sure that all the pictures that we had of this young man were of his teeth, of him smiling. And I explained to him what it's like to be a Black man in America, a Black person in America, presumed guilty, especially when people can't see that you can smile. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:15:06]: So as a Christian man, didn't matter. And Johnny B didn't just hear me, but he followed through. And even when I wasn't on, he messaged the reporter who had a relationship with the family because we covered them in the past. And we got these pictures. Right? And he was playing the drums and he was happy. And I was so young in the newsroom, Tim, at the time. And I just remember thinking I can't believe that I trusted this man with something that is so personal to Black America. Right? And he followed through. I'm just thinking about it. I'm so happy. And it didn't cost anything. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:15:44]: I think being sensitive to those unique experiences also just makes you a better manager and coworker. Because some of these issues cross race and gender, they're just more predominant for people of color and women, you know. I am generally soft spoken kind of an introvert and maybe more introverted extrovert. I actually shared this with a friend who noticed it a number of years ago. There's this thing that happens often with women where they're in a group meeting, a board meeting, a team meeting, and they'll say something. And a few minutes later, someone else will say something. And that's when the group starts really considering it. Right? That would happen with me sometimes. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:16:30]: And I said this to someone, and he said and then he noticed it happening in the next meeting or two. So by being sensitive to these things, you just become aware of sort of the diversity of people and backgrounds, you know. And I've had I've seen women journalists who, to be charitable are bulls in china shops. To be uncharitable are bullies, and maybe that's coming from a reaction. But understanding how we're all perceived, and some of the unique burdens that people of color and women carry, I think, just helps. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:16:59]: Being okay with that. Right? Like, I mean, I have heard terrible stories of journalists of color in these newsrooms, and I just know that where I came from was a place of privilege. I'm grateful for it. But, like, that level of awareness and just being open to, like, your lived experience is different than somebody else's lived experience, and that's okay. Honestly, that makes for a better team. You know, I also remember wanting to hire someone who was super bubbly, Black woman from the South, Christian. She was, like, real loud and extroverted and I loved her, Tim. I loved her. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:17:38]: And my boss said, he said, you realize you're hiring yourself again and we already have you. Right? And I was like, shameful. He was right. And then we had such a fascinating conversation about the tendency to hire and promote in your own image. And he said to me, this is how we got where we are. It's one of my white male bosses who called a spade a spade. This is how we got where we are. I hired somebody else. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:18:05]: She was the absolute right choice, the complete opposite of me. The absolute right choice. And he was willing to talk through how hiring and promoting in their own image was hurting our newsroom and how even though I want to do that and it would diversify the newsroom, it's a woman, it's a woman of color. What she brings to the team could arguably be, and this is what we talked about, a redundancy of skill and energy because I'm already here. And so we looked back at the team and we talked about their strengths. We talked about their opportunities to grow. We talked about the community and how where they weren't being represented. On this team, that was a digital only storytelling team, which meant that the community saw their work more than in some instances more than others. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:18:54]: Right? And we went with a different hire who was the absolute right hire. Absolute. Right? But he just said we're not going to make the same mistake twice even when it looks right on paper. Yeah. And it says that's vulnerability. Right? It's self awareness. Everything that we talked about, it's self care and self compassion to just be able to admit that in the room with a person who could be just furious at you for saying that. Right. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:19:22]: Like, I had every right to be mad to go to I could have gone to HR. I could have done all kinds of stuff. Right. But like we were a team, a real team, a real team. I hear a lot and I hear, I think what I'm happy about working here at API now is how much access to hope we have. And because we curate experiences and practitioners so often, we are aware of the challenges, but we are also directly connected to the hope because people are practicing and moving things forward, which is—so I know they're there. Dear journalists of color, if you're listening to this, don't give up. Don't give up. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:20:00]: And the last thing I wanna add, I just wanna piggyback on the vulnerability comment because I think we have to develop a certain level of comfort with being uncomfortable and with being vulnerable and taking some risk on sort of the little more superficial end. I think people who look like me sometimes don't wanna talk about race or don't you know, are worried about is it Latino or Latinx or African American or Black. Okay. Well, just say it and have those conversations or ask. Right? Like, as long as you're sincere and open, you know, you can get someplace if you'd step out and take that risk. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:20:36]: Right. Yeah. I think that's right. And I think, for our newsrooms, it's so important to remember that. Right? And to assume positive intention. For women and for journalists of color, that can be especially hard. And so getting there feels very dangerous. It feels very risky. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:20:54]: And so, you know, when I talk to journalists, I talk about low risk situations that they're able to assume positive intentions. I talk a lot about the level of access and knowledge that I got. I grew very, very quickly in that newsroom, rose very, very quickly. People were like, you know, are you gonna take over? And it's like, I don't want that job. Right? But I grew very, very quickly, and I share what I learned from them is, like, open access. And so for journalists who might come to me mad, a lot of journalists of color come to me mad, defeated. They've been aggressed and overlooked and gaslit, and we talk about it, and we acknowledge that those things have happened, and then we pivot. Who really are you? What do you really wanna be doing? What are other responses to this situation? Where might some of this have been coming from? Right? And some and sometimes just opening that perspective is helpful. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:21:52]: Right? Because, again, none of us are perfect. And so many of us just assume that I'm here to be managed, but not to manage and help people. I think we're, we all have an opportunity to grow, no matter where you sit on the hierarchy. So. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:22:07]: Yeah. Yeah. And I would echo the assume good intentions, but, you know, some people hear that as oppressive. Right? And that's not the point is not to swallow your microaggressions. Right? The point is assume a good intent, and then you can call people in as instead of just calling them out. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:22:28]: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, I think too about I think a lot about receipts. Right? And, like, it's assume good intentions and also look at the record. What does the record show? Yeah. There are newsrooms that desperately need to retain this talent, and the leadership isn't, just isn't able. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:22:48]: There are newsrooms that deserve to retain the talent, but because nobody else has stayed, it feels like a dangerous newsroom to be in. And one of the things that I share with leadership kind of across the board, small newsroom, big newsroom, is how do you identify as a newsroom? And I asked that waiting for them to tell me, and it's so fascinating because many will self identify as a teaching newsroom. Was it, that was the Palm Beach Post as well. And I don't prompt them, but when they tell me that they're a teaching newsroom, I get all over it. Right? Because young people and journalists of color, all journalists, because I managed a cross generational team, they also want to learn. They want to always be hirable. And if you are identifying as a teaching newsroom and if your entire shop, three people, 50 people, believes that they have something to teach someone else, that is the value proposition to get people in the door to retain them and promote them until they leave. We don't leverage our desire to teach enough, and many newsrooms have let it drop by the wayside because of the human resources issue. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:24:00]: But I think that picking it back up would serve so many people, from leadership right on down to early career. 

Rapid-fire questions 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:24:09]: Yeah. Well, we've gone long. Do you still have time for some rapid fire questions? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:24:13]: I do. I know you said make it natural, but I had to write down a couple of notes. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:24:18]: No problem. So first question, compared to a year ago, are you more or less optimistic about the future of local news? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:24:24]: I do still think that I'm more optimistic. The business side worries me a little bit. But because of the access to the journalists that I have, and I see their great work and their great responsiveness, they're far more proactive than I've seen in the past. And I think that from a human capital level, I feel very optimistic. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:24:46]: Does AI fill you with more hope or dread when it comes to news? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:24:51]: Well, it fills me with hope because I really hope that AI is a new body that's gonna be in these newsrooms, and I think that newsrooms could really use the extra hands. I think that we all have been known to say, I need extra hands. I need extra eyes. I need more time in the day. And I think that if we can embrace AI for some of those things, then it, that would be a good thing. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:25:17]: Do you have a favorite piece of advice you've been given or like to give? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:25:21]: My favorite piece of advice that I received from Amy O'Leary, I believe, in 2016 was to treat your career like a jungle gym, not a ladder. And I thought it was brilliant. And I have used it ever since. And I coach people on it all the time. How is your career a blend of both lateral and vertical moves, especially in legacy organizations where people have been there for a very long time. You do not have to wait on the bottom of the ladder for somebody to, like, retire. To move out of the way, you can actually create a jungle gym with your career and just bop right over them. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:25:56]: Do you have a favorite failure? Something we don't like to talk about in newsrooms, but can be really important for career development and personal development. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:26:06]: Yeah. I fail all the time. One that came to mind when I was looking and thinking about this call was how bad I used to fail at showing up to the daily editorial meeting. I hated that meeting, and I would show up late with oatmeal, coffee, and not sit at the table. I would sit like on a cabinet in the back of the room. And I count it as a favorite failure because I was called out for it by a senior leader, and it encouraged me to show up differently. I never liked the meeting, but there was a lot that I could learn from that meeting. It also enabled me to step more into the position of power. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:26:42]: I was always an authority in the newsroom, but in the most important meeting in the newsroom, which is where all of the power was in that editorial meeting, I was disengaged. What I learned from the failure is that there is always something to learn from the situations that we're in. I learned by watching our managing editor, how to quarterback breaking news events, how to listen to everyone before sharing my own opinion, how to make sure that I'm giving airtime. It was really, really important. And, you know, I see Carolyn at my local Joann's Fabric every season. We always shop clearance, and we always laugh at that. But she pulled me into our office and asked me to close the door and shared with me that I was failing that meeting. I think about it often. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:27:30]: You know, I think this has kind of been implicit and sometimes explicit in our conversation. But to really help your team maintain its sanity, we have to take care of our own mental health and sanity. What do you do to take care of your own mental health? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:27:44]: Well, you know, this morning, I made thankful acorn turkeys with my toddler. And every time we added a leaf to the turkey tail, we said something we were thankful for. So that was nice. I read my Bible regularly. I do my best to laugh a lot, which is really important. And I think the thing that I learned when I was burned out and that I encourage people to do and that I still do is be really intentional about who and how I'm connecting with people. Yeah. You know, you don't need to connect with hundreds of people in a week, or even 10 in a week. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:28:18]: But you need one or two deep, thoughtful, even if only five minute connections, across the course of the day. And so I'm really, really mindful to be present in the girls chat, for example. Like, when the chat is chatting, I'm there. Right? So those sorts of things. And I encourage my team to really be present, to be off if they're off, those sorts of things. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:28:41]: And then, obviously, as we've talked about taking care of your team, super important, and we've given a lot of tips. Is there anything maybe we haven't covered or maybe something that stands out to you as one of the most important things you do to maintain your team? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:28:55]: Oh, yeah. I would say something that's been helping my team a lot lately, and it's helped me too, is sharing our deep thinking time blocks. They were all kind of random and across the course of the week. Now, they're the same. And so, I have a director who will share the same deep thinking block with her team on a Thursday. My directors will often share the same deep thinking block with me on a Friday. And then we focus on single tasking. So there's accountability, but there's also a decreased expectation of response. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:29:25]: Right? If I am sharing the same deep thinking with you, Tim, and it's, then I don't have to worry about you emailing me or Slacking me because I know that you're deep working and you know that I'm deep working. And so it just lessens another variable of self distraction. When we do that, it's been really, really helpful. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:29:41]: Do you have a favorite time saving hack? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:29:44]: Oh, no. That was my time saving hack. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:29:46]: Oh, okay. It can double as both. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:29:49]: Yeah. I doubled it. That was my time saving hack. I love that. I mean, I'm really into time boxing. Oh, I will also use my out of office for deep thinking. I don't know if that's helpful to people. But I don't just use it for vacation. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:30:02]: I use it for people external to API to know that I'm unavailable temporarily. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:30:07]: This next question might be something I've been thinking about since yesterday, in particular. five years out, if this industry's moved in the right direction and we're mentally healthy and also doing a good job for our communities, what does that look like? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:30:23]: I see cross generational collaboration and discourse happening at a more regular cadence in the community, if we're doing our job. I also see from a strategic business perspective, I see community engagement really moving deeper into the news live event space to really serve as convener of the communities. I think that journalists not just being able to report a story, but actually being able to facilitate the conversation and the solutions around that story will be an important part of our five year future. 

Media and local recommendations 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:31:05]: And now for the recommendation part, if we're visiting Southern Florida where you live, what are three to five places or activities you would recommend? 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:31:16]: Well, the Palm Beach Clock Tower is pretty iconic. Havana, which is this iconic Cuban restaurant, has been around forever, and they have one of the best. I'm trying to remember the name of it. But, you know, the little service window is open 24 hours a day. You cannot go wrong, with a café con leche and a pastelito from Havana. Loggerhead, if you're into animals, I would always recommend. It's free, but it's an animal rescue for sea turtles. Very, very cool. They also have some sharks and stuff like that. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:31:48]: So, I love those places, and I would probably say you wanna, you probably want to either stand up paddle board or kayak, here in the intercoastal, which is incredible. You'll see manatees and starfish and all kinds of things. So a lot of outdoorsy things to do here in South Florida. We have good tacos too. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:32:07]: What are three to five pieces of media you would recommend? And this can be entertainment or not. Podcasts, movies, books. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:32:18]: I'm really into Korean dramas, and so I would recommend any of them. But if you have not seen Crash Landing on You, you probably should. Work wise, I always and just kinda based on this conversation, Tim, I always recommend that people listen to, What Happened to You by Dr. Bruce Perry. It's a book about trauma, and just being trauma informed in a way that is so scientific and radical and thoughtful. Journalists would really like it because it is very narratively driven and not, it doesn't expose you to like vicarious trauma. Sometimes, the trauma readings that we have are a little too detailed. But this one is very very good. And I'll give you another book recommendation actually from my hometown. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:33:02]: One of the things that we do, my former team, which I've talked a lot about here is sometimes we'll do we still do Secret Santa. The shadow text is still popping, and so we talk pretty regularly. Last year, we did Secret Santa from our hometowns. And so whoever you got got something that represented your hometown. And the book that I sent was called Buffalo Dance by Frank X Walker. He's one of my favorite poets. And it's an exceptionally lovely read about York, the slave that traveled with Lewis and Clark, who was from Louisville. And it's a love story about not just his time traveling across the country and being on that journey, but also the love that he had for his wife who was left behind. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:33:45]: But it is written in vernacular and syntax and just, I don't know. If you're looking for a way to escape for a little bit and enter into somebody else's life, I cannot recommend that short, like, little 90 page poetry book enough. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:33:59]: Well, thank you very much. I think this has been great, and I hope people get a lot out of it and come away with some practical tips they can actually take into their newsroom. 

SAMANTHA RAGLAND [01:34:10]: Tim, thank you so much. I appreciate the time. This is really great. 

TIM REGAN-PORTER [01:34:16]: Thank you for listening to the Local News Matters podcast. Never miss an episode by subscribing in your favorite podcast player and sign up for our newsletter at lnmpod.com. 

And thanks to our production partners at Pirate Audio. Pirate Audio believes every community deserves great things to listen to, and they're on a mission to help local newsrooms reach their communities via audio. If you're interested in starting a podcast or need production support for an existing one, let me know, and I'll be happy to connect you.  

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Past guests on the Local News Matters podcast include: Randy Picht and Andrew Finlayson (RJI Burnout Report), Laura Frank (COLab), Jennifer Larino (Lede New Orleans), Katherine Ann Rowlands (Bay City News), Jim O’Rourke (O’Rourke Media Group), Teri Finneman, Nick Mathews and Pat Ferrucci (Reviving Local News), Nic Dawes (THE CITY), Allison Taylor Levine (Local News Initiative Delaware), Crystal Good (Black by God),  Lisa Snowden (Baltimore Beat), Karen Rundlet (INN), Jim Brady (Knight Foundation), Candice Fortman (Exit interview, Outlier Media), Jean Friedman-Rudovsky (Resolve Philly), Jay Rosen (NYU), Sue Cross (Exit interview, INN), Mary Margaret White (Mississippi Today), Amy Kovac-Ashley (Tiny News Collective), Michael Shapiro (TAPinto), Kenny Katzgrau (redbankgreen and Broadstreet), John Garrett (Community Impact), Shannon Kinney (Dream Local Digital), Larry Ryckman (The Colorado Sun),  Frank Mungeam (Local Media Association), Kelly Ann Scott (Alabama Media Group), Sara Lomax and S. Mitra Kalita (URL Media), Elizabeth Hansen Shapiro (National Trust for Local News), Mike Rispoli and Richard Young (via When the People Decide), Sarabeth Berman (American Journalism Project), Rabbi Hillel Goldberg and Shana Goldberg (Intermountain Jewish News),  Lyndsay C. Green (via The Journalism Salute), Rashad Mahmood and Mark Glaser (New Mexico Local News Fund), Christian Vanek and Barbara Hardt (The Mountain-Ear), Dan Grech (BizHack), Zack Richner (Easy Tax Credits), Tracie Powell (Pivot Fund), Dan Oshinsky (Inbox Collective), Linda Shapley (via What Works), Yehong Zhu and Jake Seaton (Zette, Column), Charity Huff (January Spring), Joaquin Alvarado and Dave Perry (Aurora Sentinel), Steve Waldman (Rebuild Local News), Maritza Félix (Conecta Arizona), Michael Bolden (American Press Institute), Jeff Roberts and Corey Hutchins (CFOIC, Colorado College), Eve Pearlman and Erica Anderson (Spaceship Media), Jennifer Brandel (Hearken, Democracy SOS), Corey Hutchins with Bay Edwards, Todd Chamberlain and Raleigh Burleigh (Sopris Sun).